Need help understanding Wells Fargo terms on lock

WF is now at 5.0 on their site for 30 year fixed

is this with no points and no origination for everyone?  according to the site it "All rate quotes shown come with one point as an origination fee. "

today I was quoted with 4.875% with 1 point or 5% with 1/2 point or 5.25% with no point.  I'm scheduled to close at teh end of the month.  but only started doing paperwork 2 days ago.  was told that it's a go.

Called BoA today and was told 5% with no points and lenders fees were $1300.  He told me he could close by end of the month.  no problem. 

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After reading everyone's reply to the original post, I am still confused of what options are available if you lock with WF and the rates dropped .5. I am using my builder's in-house mortgage broker and locked in last week at 5.375% with no points but with the typical WF fees. I see that rates are 5% today and was wondering what options do I have if the rates drop any lower? My lender is pretty much clueless or is acting that way and has not been responsive so I am seeking some online advice.

The rates on WF site are with an assumption of a 1 point origination fee, along with excellent credit, etc.

So the actual rate right now, as of 9:12am on their website, is 5.125%. But it hasn't been updated since 7:30 and there could be variance between what is on there and what is reality.

Unfortunately what forums like this have proven to us all is that each WF agent does things differently. Sometimes way different. I was just telling my wife this morning how uncomfortable this whole process is when it hit me that there is nothing in writing in terms of WF policies on things like 'return-to-float' penalties, etc. My WF agent charged me a half-point yesterday morning to float-down from 5.75 to 5.25 (an hour before they dropped another .125...).

Other people have posted that their WF agent will let them float-down anytime they want, without penalty, for no fee, so long as they take the current rate + 1/8th. That is a great deal (talk about protection!) but my agent isn't offering that to me.

I have also heard that WF will only allow one float-down, but yesterday I asked my agent and he said that if it drops down further I *could* float-down again but I'd have to pay the fee.

And then, on top of that, someone messaged me from this forum telling me that his/her WF agent said that float-down could happen more than once, but the float-down fee grows by a half-point each time you float down! Example: if I float down once, it is half-point; twice it is a full point; three times it is 2 points, etc. That seems absurd to me.

FWIW, I emailed my WF agent yesterday, after the rate dropped 1/8th after I did the float-down, and told him that if the rates go to 4.75 or lower I'm going to pay another $1425 re-lock fee again as it is worth it to me (I plan on staying in my home for at least 15 years so a lower payment long-term is worth it to me). ($1425 is 1/2 point on $280k loan). I've yet to hear from him that the fee would be higher, so if the time comes and I decide to go that route he'd better not double the fee on me or I'll strangle the guy.

I know my ramblings don't help - they just state the facts - that no one can say what the policies are because we're just relying on these shady agents over the phone...

To add to everyone's frustration with another case in points in regards to the WF website rates:

When I originally locked my loan at 5.75, as I had the agent on the phone to lock I had the website rates up and they were listed as 5.75 (that includes the 1 pt orig fee assumption). Even though I wasn't paying the 1% origination fee, I got locked at 5.75. So I just assumed from there that whatever was listed on the website was what the rate that would apply to me was...

Last Friday at about 3pm the rate on their website dropped to 5.125 for about 2 hours or so. I was busy getting (well, attempting to but I wussed out due to claustrophobia) an MRI so I couldn't call my agent. But I was ticked because I told him that I wanted him to call me as soon as I could re-lock at 5.25. He never called.

So I called him on Monday morning. By then the rate on the website jumped back to 5.25. I wanted to float-down to 5.25 and he said that I needed to check the assumption fine print, that the rate is now 5.375! I responded telling him that it was 5.75 on the site when I locked at 5.75, and he responded saying he locked me "thin" (whatever the hell that means).

This whole business is shady at best and is in need of serious transparency. Go ahead and flame away if you disagree, but when agents from the same lender all have different policies, it is what it is - shady.

I can see where you're coming from Mark, and I can't disagree that your agent may not be working in your best interest. 

But like most other businesses that deal with some sort of service, you will get a different deal depending on who you work with.  Whether that be for insurance, buying a car, getting a new roof, redoing your kitchen, etc. you're going to get different quotes even if 2 people work for the same company. 

But I hope it works out for you in the end!

I don't believe my agent is shady or doing anything dishonest - if I did I would eat the appraisal and move to another lender immediately.

What I meant/said was that Wells Fargo needs to have all of the policies in writing and available to consumers and not leave it up to the agents.

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So I finally got a hold of my WF lender and asked him about a float down option that I read about on this thread.  My rate is locked at 5.375% and he said if rates dropped down to 5%, then he can float me down to 5% and charge me .125%, which he said was "1/8" of a point.  He claims his current rate for a 30 year fix is 5.25%, which is .25% higher then WF's website.  I know WF' website quote for a 30 year fix has a 1% orgination fee but I don't see why his rate sheet would be higher by .25%.  Anyone else borrowing from WF getting quoted .25% higher then the webiste for a 30 year fix?

Are you being charged a point as well, in addition to your other lender fees?  If not, than that's why you would be quoted a higher rate, since the 1% origination fee is used to buy the rate down to 5% as quoted on their website.  If you are already being charged that, then there may be other factors driving up your rate (credit score, loan size, loan to value, etc.).

No, my lender is not charging me a point for oringation fee, just the lender fees.  So is it safe to say that for a prime borrower who is going through a WF lender, the rate will always be .25% higher then WF's website?

If you're not paying points but that's how it's quoted on their website, then you'll have a higher rate.  But the .25% difference you're seeing will not always be the same, it will just depend on how the banks are pricing the rate sheets. 

Ex., I've had some lenders who were charging MORE for a rate of 5.375% on an FHA loan then they were for 5.25%.  The only way to know for sure what you'll be offered as a rate is to call and get a quote.

Mark Siegrist:

FHTB -

 

I'm in a very similar situation and have been told the same things you were told. I locked in with my Wells Fargo agent (not a broker) in early June at 5.75%.

To "re-lock" he told me would be a half-point charge. Keep in mind that Wells Fargo (at least as told to me) only allows one "re-lock".

My agent has not, however, mentioned (and I will definitely be asking) about the clause where if the rate drops by more than a half-percent then no fee to re-lock.  I'm gonna ask him but I'm not sure why they would waive the fee because "he understood at that point I could shop around" - theoretically you could shop around any time you wanted to, couldn't you? You'd have to eat the appraisal fee though as I doubt they're transferrable. Hopefully someone with experience/knowledge on this matter chimes in on this.

Please let me know how you make out. I'm surprised more folks in our situation aren't on these forums discussing these issues, since WF is such a huge lender.

mark

Mark, to close the loop ended up locking in a 5.25 with 1 point, no origination.

Thanks for the update!

I wound up doing the float-down/re-lock at 5.25, for a half-point fee. About 2 hours afterwards when the financial reports came out that day, the rates immediately dropped 1/8th and all of the analysts (especially the guys on this site) were predicting that rates would be plummeting soon, so I was regretting my decision...

...they haven't dropped at all and have since risen, so I'm happy I got 'cold feet' and re-locked when I did! So now I don't have to worry about it anymore.

mark