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Thursday 1/29…Jobless Claims at all Time High

by Victor Burek -
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Today we got the release of 2 key economic reports and they both are disappointing for the economy.  First, jobless claims, economists where expecting 580,000 but number came in at 588,000.  Continuing claims are at all time record levels at 4.76 million.  The next report to come in was Durable orders.  Durable orders gives us insight into companies willingness to spend on equipment(items that will last more then 3 years such as autos, computers, etc…) which is a sign of economic growth.   Economists where expecting a drop of -2.0% but the number came in worse at -2.6%.  Both of these reports are friendly to mortgage backed securities but on the news we have started to sell off.  We still have new home sales to be released in about an hour and we have another treasury auction later today of 5 year treasury notes.  It appears that the added supply of treasuries, which the government is going to need to fund the huge spending, I mean stimulus, package that passed the house yesterday, are dragging mbs down with them.  Since Treasuries and mortgage backed securities are both fixed income investments, they do trend in the same direction.  With all the added supply of treasuries, the price is going down which increases the yield or rate of return they pay.  Since treasuries carry no risk, they are backed by the full faith of the USA, and with the higher yields that they are paying they are becoming more attractive then buying mbs which have a higher yield but do carry some risk.  

Yesterday, after opening higher, mortgage backed securities sold off after the release of the FOMC statement.  In the statement, the Fed said that they will continue to support the housing market by buying mbs(we wanted them to say this), they also said that inflation is not a concern(another positive), and lastly they said they are prepared to buy US treasuries(I think this is what hurt us).  We were hoping that in this statement they would announce that they will buy US treasuries but they stated they are prepared to purchase longer-term Treasury securities.  Once the statement was released, US treasuries sold off big time, which brought mbs with them.  This is what I refer to when I say birds of a feather flock together.  I touched on this yesterday and will again this morning.  Mortgage rates follow mortgage backed securities and not treasuries.  So, why would we want the Fed to buy treasuries?  Now keep in mind this is in real general terms.  We and the government want investors to buy mortgage backed securities.  Investors who buy fixed income investments have a couple choices, they can buy treasuries or mortgage backed securities.  Treasuries carry no risk, they are guaranteed to be paid on their investment where mbs are not guaranteed so they carry some risk.  With the added supply of treasuries on the market, the price moves lower(law of supply and demand) which causes the rate of return they pay to increase.  With the higher yields they are paying they are more attractive now then buying a mbs even though they are paying a higher rate of return but again they have risk.  So, if the Fed starts to buy longer term treasuries, what will be the result?   With another buyer in the market, that can print money, to buy the added supply, it will allow the price to increase which would lower they yield they pay which will then make mbs more attractive.   

I will get back to you later if we have a massive sell off, but for now we are down about .25 in discount and yesterday we were also down about .25 in discount.  We should see rates about .125% higher today then we saw early yesterday.


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on
For the past week, I've had 5.25% at par. Today it jumped up to 5.625%. That is a huge jump in one day. It's been nothing but an upward trend when all the experts have been saying we haven't hit bottom yet. Are we really going to see sub-five rates again in the near future? This is confusing to me, because it seems that forecasting rates is more of a crap shoot than anything else. We say rates love bad economic news, and with continued bad news, rates have increased by a full 1%. Some twist in the plot comes out like the third statement made by the feds regarding treasuries, and voila, a .375 increase overnight. Please help me understand. Is it back to the old saying, "Nobody knows what's going to happen with rates. They're completely unpredictable" ?
on
I have a rate lock of 4.5% for a 30 year fixed rate FHA loan for the cost of a single point. Closing has been delayed by causes outside the control of my lending bank that will cause my rate lock to expire. It will cost me about 350 dollars to extend from February 17 to February 27. Is this worth it? I have yet to see a rate this good but other than this site i have not found a good place to track MBS rates. My question is that does anybody think that rates will be at our bellow 4.5% by February 17? Is a rate of 4.5% worth 350 dollars right now?
on
Carolyn, the rate you get is based on many criteria, credit score, loan to value, type of loan, how much you are paying in costs. Not sure who you are working with but from rate sheets this morning par rates are anywhere from 4.625% to 5.125%. Toi get the rates i just showed, you would need scores over 740, conventional loan and paying closings costs and 1 point. But right now there is a disconnect between mbs pricing and rate sheets for many reasons. One of the biggest is lenders are back logged with loans and cant keep up with the pace.
on
Normychas, it is my personal opinion that paying $350 to secure your super low rate of 4.5% for the life of the loan is a good move. Best wishes to you.
on
Victor, thanks for the reply. I'm a loan officer. Sounds like I need to shop some cheaper wholesale lenders. Who do you like?
on
I second what Carolyn said. I'd pay the 350 in a hear beat. I'm no expert but have been watching the site for about a month. I was feeling like the rates might go below 4.5% based on the info about the feds trying to drive them lower. I have now watched them go back up. Needless to say it's been an aducation and I now feel that we just don't know when they will drop down again and we should get greedy. 4.5% is an excellent rate. You should lock and never look back.
on
Wow, I also expected rates to go back down. I'm looking to refinance as I currently have a 6.75% loan. I'd like to get below 5% and have been waiting for rates to drop to lock. I meet the criteria that Victor outlines, I have credit score over 740 and it's a conventional loan, but I'm not getting quotes of below 5.0 with no points. Where should I look for these rates?
on
Alvaro, you cannot get a super low rate with zero points. Zero points is almost a thing of the past. Right now, investors are highly favoring the loans with 1 percent origination fee. A zero point loan has a significantly higher rate, not just .25 higher like in the past. I suggest you shop for a loan based on paying one point. If you plan to keep your property for at least 2-4 years, you will come out ahead by rolling that one percent fee into your loan and taking the best rate available.
on
I actually got 5.125 through astoria fed last week, no points
on
Carolyn, email me off board and i will gladly let you know which lenders i use. Not appropriate for me to give there names on a public forum. my email is vburek@866whyross.com
on
My credit score is around 800. I locked in on a 30-year fixed (refi) yesterday at 4.625 and paid 1 pt to do so. Been watching this site for a couple of weeks and have had my info ready to lock for a couple of weeks...lost my nerve to go any further with this screwy market. No matter what happens going forward, I'll sleep good at a 4.625 rate and paying the point. You can get too cute right now and get burned. Nobody knows where this ship is headed. And as we've seen, the rates aren't always doing *what they should* be doing based on other economic data.
on

Bob Smith, Where you are located? Can you share your lender's name? Please email me at for the lender's detail. I am re-finance my primary house, but the rate I got is around 5.5% with 1% fee. Please email me. I have excellent credit score and all document salary too.

on
Locked at 4.5 yesterday with 3.375 points. Although I believe rates could go lower, because I close in late Feb, I don't know if that's a long enough horizon to realize those rates. Big sell off today -> bargain hunters tomorrow?
on
Carolyn, you're right, I do realize I need to pay for points to get the lower rates that I'd like, but I had not considered paying for so many points as Johnny C has done. There's a lender on the internet I'm looking at that quotes 4.5% by paying $7,291 in fees -- they don't show the actual points, I'm guessing it's between 3 and 4points. Is this worth it? I'm getting nervous about continuing to wait for lower rates. I wish I'd known earlier about this site and I would have locked two weeks ago!
on
Whoops, I meant to say that we probably SHOULDN't get greedy.
on
I was willing to go for the higher points because the lender offered "incentive" money to pay it. I figured if it wasn't "my" money, no need to stress for another week for 1/4 points.
on
It looks like MBS got hammered today. I'm currently waiting on a application to refinance my current 6% 30 year. I was told I would be closing on the 3rd or 4th week of February. My fear is that the rates by then will be higher than the interest rate I have right now. My mortgage rep was convinced rates would be lower next month... we shall see.
on
I'm feeling a sigh of relief considering I locked in yesterday on what I feel like are very favorable terms: I'm 3 years into a 30 year mortgage that was at 5.875%, I was able to lock in yesterday on a new 30 year loan at 4.875% on a 60 day lock, with a free float down option; rates can drop as little as 1/8 and I can take advantage. No points paid at all, just $400 for processing + appraisal and title insurance. I'm stoked, we're going to save at least $300 per month!
on
Oh yeah...I almost forgot....my deal includes an escrow waiver too! woohoo!!