Good luck with that. I guess we will see how much power NAR really has. Not enough I'm guessing.

Dear NAR--where were you when all of the guidelines and RESPA and HVCC were being ramrodded through Congress? We are more than happy to accompany you to a Congressional hearing as soon as you play the game the "mortgage industry" way--how about sharing the "skin in the game" with us?? We'll ease up on the financing, but if it defaults, you share in the buyback expenses? Sound fair? I hear so many RE complaints about the HVCC--why isn't the NAR using it's lobbying might to strike it down. Or could it be that the comps that appraisers are picking in these "horrible" appraisals are foreclosures or short sales sold by...dare I say it....realtors??? And please please please--TELL US WHAT THE NAR CONSIDERS 'REASONABLE RESTRICTIONS ON THE LIMITS OF CREDIT.' We'd really like to know..how about the NAR ensure that there are safeguards in place to ensure a housing appreciation bubble never occurs again?? That would be a good starting point, wouldn't it???

It's still about jobs. People can't buy homes when they are unemployed or under employed.

Amnesia!

Even with the current RESPA and HVCC guidlines, I have yet to see a "qualified" home buyer get declined. It sounds like the NAR to see underwiriting guidlines eased.....again...??

Funny how the feds focus on the originators compensation, which typically is less than 1% of the loan amount (especially at the big retail shops), yet nothing is said about the 6% gouge from realtors on the sale amount. Better watch out realtors, once the lending industry gets cannibalized you will be next in their sights.

Gee NAR, how should we make it easier for a borrower to qualify for a home? Zero down? Stated income? Short-term ARMs with lower start payments? FICO scores to 550? Debt ratios to 65%? Seems to me we've already been there. No qualified borrower is turned down for a loan in today's mortgage market. If by "qualified", you mean zero down, 580 FICO and 50% debt ratio, they how about NAR opens shope for NAR Mortgage Company and makes that loan. And to make sure you are in a strong equity position, you could NAR Mortgage Insurance Guaranty. You guys could make a killng. Don't worry, these loans could never go bad, if the homeowner gets in trouble, they'll just sell the house. Values are guaranteed to go up.

guys...is a system collapse imminent?

6:15 PM Ron Paul, likely to chair a House committee on monetary policy, sees the Fed "self-destructing" through its easing: "People are going to desert the dollar. I think the Chinese are hinting that already. They're not wanting our dollars as much as they want raw materials... There is no evidence that creating money creates economic growth."

Realtors. The same folks who told everyone that "Now is the time to buy!" in 2006, in 2007, in 2008..... The same folks who pitched Buy and Bail schemes to homeowners, earning another commission while the original lender took it in the shorts (if lenders had shorts). When NAR offers to share the losses maybe they have some moral ground. Realtors got their commissions when the overpriced properties were sold, then they got paid for handling short and foreclosure sales. Pretty ballsy asking lenders to loosen up again just so they can start the gravy train again....

Wow Liz, nice one... maybe we should re-educate realtors into farmers...

Realtors have escaped with no blame in this entire thing. Most realtors are corrupt or just part timers that sell 2 houses a year. Thats actually a fact look it up. The realtors that do business are constantly looking for a kick back and now they want a relaxed underwriting atmosphere??Wow thats funny. I actually thought that someone should have to be able to document income, have a decent credit score, and at least a few dollars to invest in a home. I guess we should go back to stated 80/20 loans with 550 credit. Seemed to work so well the first time.

They would be better off spending there advertising dollars on educating consumers on the importance of preparing their financial house before they buy one to live in. I work hard to help realtors understand the process and the good ones...I mean the real good ones are starting to "get it". As whole that industry would help themselves to know and understand our process much better.

Used to be when I was a kid, most decision making was based upon whether something was moral or immoral. Then it came to pass that alternatives were weighed on whether something was right or wrong. Time goes by and it becomes whether it is legal or illegal. Then it deteriorates to what can I get away with without being caught. However, still not having enough degrees of freedom, you slide even further to Nobody's Gonna’ do About It Anyway so I'll Just Change the Law as it Applies To Me and Everybody Else……..That goes for Wall St., Washington, the Realtards and, yep, the mortgage “professionals”. Now, excuse me, while I get the vomit taste out of my mouth.

Sorry - repost w/o the explitives.....Used to be when I was a kid, most decision making was based upon whether something was moral or immoral. Then it came to pass that alternatives were weighed on whether something was right or wrong. Time goes by and it becomes whether it is legal or illegal. Then it deteriorates to what can I get away with without being caught. However, still not having enough degrees of freedom, you slide even further to Nobody's Gonna’ do Crap About It Anyway so I'll Just Change the Law as it Applies To Me and Screw Everybody Else……..That goes for Wall St., Washington, the Realtards and, yep, the mortgage “professionals”. Now, excuse me, while I get the vomit taste out of my mouth.

Vicki: Please humor us all: give us one real life example of the "would-be homebuyer" you reference below. "Under current practices, many would-be home buyers who could responsibly, affordably become home owners are unable to do so," As the President of NAR, please provide us with some financial wisdom: How do you rationalize reducing lending standards so more (and if I'm reading your comments correct, less credit worthy) consumers can purchase houses (I'm guessing with less/or no down payment) in a declining value real estate market? Is it possible, Vicki, that it is time to change the gatekeeper to the homebuying transaction, as your guidance seems like it would shepherd the next trusting herd of homebuying sheep right off another financial cliff?? Sorry--this time, the mortgage folks that are left, are not going to stand for this. I hope every mortgage professional reading this sees the warning signs this time, and sees where this is headed. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Many "qualified" prospective homeowners don't get declined - BECAUSE THEY CAN NEVER APPLY! I'm talking about legitimately Self-Employed borrowers with good scores and verifiable assets, for whom there are now NO mortgage programs available because of the widespread Stated Income abuses. Originally, RESPONSIBLE LENDERS (Chase comes to mind) had SI/VA products ONLY for the self-employed; they would NOT take apps from W-2 borrowers. Then the vulture lenders and crooked brokers took over, offering SISA "Liar Loans" to one and all, and the result was predictable. NOW, most of YOU on this blog can't get a mortgage (I'm assuming that most realtors and mortgage brokers are self-employed)!! If the GSEs won't accept any SI paper, how about underwriting adding 40% to a legitimately self-employed (with appropriate verifiable business history) borrower's net income shown on the 1040? There's GOT to be a way - there's a HUGE market in the US for self-employed business owners and professionals who are otherwise qualified, and who are effectively excluded from participating in the recovery by either a purchase or a refinance. Thank God, regional, community, and savings banks are beginning to offer portfolio products to this market, so don't be surprised when they eat your lunch!

jdr...I feel your pain but the fact is that self employed borrowers simply no longer get to have it both ways. Either you claim all of your income or get a loan commensurate with the amount of income you claim. It really is that simple....I agree there is a large number of self employed borrowers who make a group of underserved but well qualified buyers...they just need to come clean on their income and they will be in good shape.

this made my day, reading these posts

OK, so everything said so far is true. We in the mortgage industry have been made out to be the root of all evil, caused global warming and I’m pretty sure we had something to do with male pattern baldness and athlete’s foot. The fact is we need realtor referrals as a part of our business model and they need competent mortgage professionals to make their living. So, how do we make it work? Apart from the proof of income for the self employed I don’t see any issues with getting most folks that can and want to buy approved. Has it become more of a dreaded process for everyone? Absolutely, we must communicate better with everyone involved in the transaction about the new realities of obtaining a mortgage loan. Here’s a good video to share from Frank & Brian that will help set the tone. I’ve been showing it to realtors and borrowers a like and have noticed a much better attitude when asking for more stuff. http://www.thinkbigworksmall.com/mypage/archive/9213/54142

Realtors the most "unprofessional" professionals in the world. I secure financing for every deserving borrower I work with. Is it a sloppy ugly process, yes, but at the end of the day we close and the buyers are happy.

I don't feel sorry for self employed borrowers not being able to obtain loans because of shady accounting. Most of these guys live in 500k and up housing, drive their big SUV's, have a home at the beach and their kids go to great schools. I am self employed and audited by a third party every year and it's usually a five figure check just for the audit and another six figure check to pay the taxes. Sorry SE guy. File your taxes correctly, pay your income taxes and you'll get a loan.

jdr, your right the unique programs should have never been available to W-2 borrowers. with that said, Jason is right on the money. I have many self employed borrowers who have started to finally understand that they can't have it both ways. Report it and use it or take advantage of the tax laws and struggle to find financing scenarios that will work. Well stated Jason!

Bill, that was great. JD I am with you on the stated income thing. if a lender is doing the right thing for its shareholders, performing its fiduciary duty, it probably should not be worrying about how the borrower would fare in tax court but only how likely repayment is. That said, there are other ways of determining income that don't involve tax returns, and the smarter stated income programs allowed them in the past. That is, 25% or 30% down, six months of reserves after closing, six months of stated income in liquid funds, and excellent credit scores and a good history of self-employment. I would be very surprised if loans made under those conditions went sideways in the droves that others did. Yes it might make some of us sick that these folks can generally buy more expensive digs but I say let's help them when it is good for the economy and our shareholders and let the IRS take care of itself. It's pretty good at doing that.

Thanks for the support, Liz. It's NOT about "having it both ways" whatever that means (?), it's about a fair UW assessment of the ability to repay as agreed. Most S-E folks are not the Leona Helmsley type who live in huge houses and deduct personal expenses from their business (for which Helmsley rightly went to prison). They DO deduct legitimate business expenses from their gross incomes, which hurts them in only two ways: when obtaining a mortgage or obtaining disability insurance. Liz brought out two important points: 1) that the IRS can take care of itself, and 2) that the default rate for PROPERLY UW SI/VA loans is very low. In advocating for realistic underwriting for the S-E, I thought it went without saying that verification of proper reserves, business history, conservative LTV, etc. must be part of the process. No one is looking for a free lunch - remember "TANSTAAFL"? Now, we're ALL paying.

JDR....when I say having it both ways I am referring to business owners paying for everything under the sun as a business expense (items that you and I pay out of our taxable wages) thus skirting the tax on these items that in many cases are not related to the business and reducing the taxable income on their return. In the past they were not impacted in their ability to find financing, now they are. I am not arguing the quality of the loan....simply that in our current environment you need to make sure your tax decisions take into account your ability to get a fully documented mortgage. So it really is that simple....if your income allows you to afford a $500K property, simple reflect that when you file your taxes and you won't have an issue.

Jason, It's called situational ethics. You decry the self employed to "skirt" their tax obligation, while, actively promoting FHA purchases that immediately, upon signing, place your clients underwater. At the least, be consistent.

What most of you missed on the whole self-employed , stated income or reduced docs loans is the most important one. These programs were all created to reduce the paperwork burden on someone who has a very complex financial situation, and would otherwise be unable to provide all of the paperwork that could be required in a timely manner. They were never meant to allow borrowers to qualify with incomes higher than they actually make. Unfortunately many used these to qualify for more than they should have, or they used them because they have a lot of unreported income. Both of these scenarios are bad. The first one ends up as a foreclosure or distressed sale , and in the second scenario we pay extra because they don't pay enough. Jason is right...you can't have it both ways. John Rodgers is right on the money except he forgot to add that the checks we write for our taxes would be smaller if the self-employed people who are tax cheats ( I didn't say they all are! ) paid their fair share. I have been doing this for 20 years and I have NEVER run into a situation that I could not doccument legit income. It's all on the tax returns....

Easy fix for self employed and this country. Flat tax with no deductions except maybe the first $10,000 or $15,000 income is exempt. This would include corporations. I just rolled a SE guy with 3 companies, he shows plenty of income according the Fannie but what a complicated mess.

I have frequently found myself telling a S/E borrower that they need to get their CPA to "back off" if they want to buy a home. I can't blame them for taking advantage of the tax advantages of being S/E. I write a lot of things off too but I don't feel ike a "cheat." I have actually taken advantage of this and educated myself in how to get loans done for S/E borrowers. I even have a side business as a consultant on doing S/E income analysis. Its amazing how ignorant most LO's are on how to crunch the numbers to get these loans done. It is possible. I've recently closed several loans for S/E borrowers after another LO basically walked away from it.

I really don't think that NAR was talking about stated loans. I do think that the ratcheting up of FHA guidelines (FICO & collections), as an example, was what they were referring to. Even the FHA commissioner complained about this in his speech to the MBA convention.

Don....everyone on this blog closes government mortgages.(FHA and even worse the dreaded VA mortgages at 102% LTV) We are all evil....whahahahahahah By the way...your folks probably bought a house with an FHA or VA loan with the same or stricter underwriting standards that exist today. It has worked for 70 years....but now the ever vigilant corpoarte watchdog/basement blogger Don has declared that it is evil....run for the hills would be FHA buyers...run!!!

Jason, I must say, you are consistent in your ignorance. I do agree with you on one point, I would, absolutely, tell " FHA buyers" to "run for the hills" in this enviornment. Why, for all that is just, would I encourage someone to fail and limit their options??? Residential real estate is depriciating and will continue to depreciate. This is fact. What don't you understand?????? As far as my parents go, F' off you ignorant SOB. My parents saved and put down 20% on the home they, currently, own outright. How dare you..............

I knew I could count on you Don....you are my hero.

Count on me for what, Jason?

Maybe you count on this guy Jason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731G71Sahok Yep, he used the dreaded "F" word......just this past weekend on Jekyll Island.......look it up.....The American people can forgive ignorance.....willful ignorance??? Not so sure.

For finally helping me to see the light. Anybody who engages in the sale of an FHA mortgage must be destroyed. I have come to know (thanks to your guidance) that we are all evil greedy pigs. Once again...I thank you for opening my eyes. Now....off to shred all of my files for loans in process....you are a true agent of change and my hero Don.

Welcome to the fold Jason!!! And I didn't even have to bring your parents into it.....

Thanks Don for the insightful clip.....I will begin my day tomorrow by making multiple citizen's arrests at my office. I will then turn myself in to the appropriate authorities. You should head down to your local HUD office and do the same. We must start somewhere.

Good start Jason.....but, no, I need not do the same...however, criminals do love company, so, nice try :)

And BTW Jason, never bring my Mother and Father into one of your lame arguments again. They were bustin' ass before wou knew how to wipe your ass.......

Don and Jason, you guys need a hug.

Don, you have never told anyone yet on this blog what you for for a living? Tell us what you dor a living, because you really know how to piss everyone off here on MBS. Go play on some gov"t site and argue with someone else.

mdeery, I thought I was playing on a government site :) Take away the gov and your industry is a mushroom cloud.....POOF!!

Don is a lawyer. He is too angry not to be...

Jason--your arguments loses all credibility when you go personal, and perhaps intimates that you don't have the ability to stray outside the status quo lending mindset that got us in the mess to begin with (I'm sure you do, but the exchanges above don't show that). FHA in and of itself is not what Don is questioning--he is questioning the financial wisdom of selling a homebuying consumer a home that we know based on current data is very likely to depreciate, with leveraged financing that is likely to make them "underwater" borrowers almost immediately. If you were a financial advisor, and you were analyzing the financials of a company, and a consumer wanted to borrow money to buy the stock of that company, but you knew the financials overwhelmingly showed the stock of that company was likely to suffer a 10-15% loss, would you still sell the stock to your client to make your commission? Now translate that to homeowning except add this: the loan is tied to a home that is supposed to provide shelter, security, memories, community, roots. With the stock loss--the borrower is just losing the value of that stock--and if he loses it all--it's just money, right? But if he buys that house, it goes upside down and falls on hard times, he risks the disruption of the stability of that shelter, security, memories, community, roots if he defaults on that loan. Why we don't get that as an industry is beyond me--and it the reason IMO that we continue to be legislated into oblivion.

Hey Adam, Nope, not a lawyer. This is like the Tom Hanks character in "Saving Private Ryan". Should we start a pool?? LOL ..... Angry?? Yes, as any informed citizen should be. My frustration comes not from the ignorant, but, the willfully ignorant. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611?RS_show_page=0 Good article. Dumbed down enough that even a "mortgage professional" can understand it. :) ....I figure after all the ad hominem pointed my way I'll take one shot back.

Frank aka Gunga Din, Your arms must be getting awfully tired carrying water for that guy.....personally, I'd cut him off.

Would be funny if Don is Realtor

I get the average Joe's frustration. Believe me....I work for a retail bank. Who do you think they come to talk to about their mortgage...It is just the assertion, no matter the argument or effort to work toward the contrary that we are scum. Don here is what my grandmother would have referred to a "sh%t stirrer"....if I had the concerned citizen feel from him it would be a different story.

Adam, That wouldn't be funny it would be ROTFLMAO hysterical :)

Jason, Take a deep breath.....now exhale.....You get so worked up defending your position you miss the forest for the trees. BTW your Grandma was right, sometimes, the sh*t must be stirred, mixed and flung through the fan. That is how our great country was born and I, for one, don't intend to watch it go down without a fight."There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt." John Adams 1826

What are your suggestions to reform our industry Don?

By the way Don...I have not defended my position in quite awhile in our debate. I have given up trying to convince you that I work ethically to support my family. I was simply reflecting that you have nothing but tired talking points and youtube clips to add to this debate.

Well Jason, for starters, let the bubble deflate. Advise your fellow citizens that, in your professional opinion, it is beyond foolish to purchase a home with 3.5% down in our current enviornment. Take the time to understand the consequence of a fiat currency in a systemn of fractional reserve banking. Man up to the fact that you were complicit, actively or passively, in the largest, most fraudulent, theft in the history of the world. I posted a link to an article. Did you read it?? If you did, I would believe that the natural curiousity of a "professional" would compel you to travel further down the rabbit hole. Alas, Jason, you are to busy worrying about an 1/8 here or there and your next commission check to understand the reality of our economic situation. You and your ilk cheer the ZIRP policy, you dismiss the fraud FASB committed in mark to myth, you support the criminal activity of the TBTF through either, omission. or comission. You were used Jason. Wall St. and Washington used you like a common whore and you still don't get it. "And I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property -- until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered... The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Thomas Jefferson wrote on May 28, 1816

Really Jason, you did not defend your position??? What's this: " Don....everyone on this blog closes government mortgages.(FHA and even worse the dreaded VA mortgages at 102% LTV) We are all evil....whahahahahahah By the way...your folks probably bought a house with an FHA or VA loan with the same or stricter underwriting standards that exist today. It has worked for 70 years....but now the ever vigilant corpoarte watchdog/basement blogger Don has declared that it is evil....run for the hills would be FHA buyers...run!!!" Seems like a defense to me......

Yikes! So, Don is a professional tea-partier (and paranoid)! No, Don, unlike you, we are not tools of the banks. Most of us work honestly every day to put qualified borrowers into homes. I have NEVER advised a client to get a gov't mortgage. And, although being self-employed and NOT a tax cheat as Jason painted us all with his broad brush, I can't afford a $250K home, let alone the $!M McMansion he imagines all "self-employed tax cheats" live in. I'll remind him that SMALL BUSINESS is the backbone of the US economy, and always has been - and we, as small businesspeople, RIGHTLY DEDUCT the costs of hiring employees and paying for the services our businesses use, which creates other jobs. FYI, the tax code is established for many different POLICY REASONS - e.g., Congress rightly concluded that home ownership is good for the economy, for neighborhood stability, for the country - which is why we will never have a flat tax. And, although Don won't admit what he does for a living (who cares?), I am an Attorney and proud of it. I help people every day, make an honest if modest living, AND SLEEP WELL AT NIGHT. And, I'm really too busy to waste any more time with fools like Don and Jason - sorry you guys are so unhappy. Why don't you DO something about it, make your OWN corner of the world a little better, and kwitcherbitchin?

JDR....I don't think you are a tax cheat. I just don't endorse stated income loans. Fairly reasonable position to take, and at the same time I can understand why you feel differently.

Well JDR, Let's take this point by point. #1 I am an independent and a realist. #2 Yes, JDR, you are a tool of the banks. Nothing personal, just a fact. #3 JDR you have a pair. Jason??...Not so much...(kidding, really.... just kidding)

I Just got back from the NAR convention where I was participating in the launch of the new HOME123. We had tremendous interest from Realtors in our Credit Key program that will allow them to reach out to the community and help prospects who are income and down payment qualified, but lack the credit need to open the door to home ownership. Now I no why there was so much interest!

I think most of us in the mortgage industry have exceeded our daily allowance of potshots from politicians, the media, and moralists that simply don't understand our roles in the housing market........... As the saying goes, "it's not what they call you, but what you answer to." Personally, I don't regret a single loan I've ever closed, because it was what the client requested, it delivered a tangible benefit, and it was my professional opinion that the loan could be repaid. That's how I believe my business is supposed to operate........... I had no ability to set home prices; I didn't create loan programs that could be easily abused; I did not misrepresent subprime loans as AAA investments in the secondary market; I didn't falsify information to my clients or my lending partners........And certainly, I did not have the enforcement authority to crack down on those disreputable realtors, loan officers, appraisers, attorneys, title officers, wall street traders, and loan applicants. So, I have a clear conscience, and I imagine that everyone else who has survived the mortgage meltdown - like most of the guys commenting here - feel the same way...... Today, the people that need to look in the mirror are the politicians who decided to bail out and reinforce the existing financial oligarchy. The financial firms that benefitted the most from flooding the market with misrepresented and misunderstood collateralized debt obligations have emerged from the resulting meltdown with greater market share and more leverage........If people are looking to direct their anger and frustration in a constructive manner, I'd suggest starting by questioning a Congress that has decided to bail out and enable those most responsible for our current lending environment.

Owl Tree, Absolute tripe. I see Stockholm Syndrome with a healthy dash of Nuremberg Defense. Good Day.