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Post Statistics: 19,943 Views, 24 Replies
Latest Post: Tue, Jan 5 2010 5:12 PM by Harlan Cooper
  • Mon, Nov 9 2009 12:39 PM
    6,500 Tax Credit for Homeowners

    Has anyone seen anything requiring the home owner to have sold or in the process being sold their previous principle residence to qualify for the tax credit. My client has owned their home for 5 years, wants to buy another as principal residence, but want to keep the previous as an investment property. Nothing on irs.gov. NAR has a guide showing that the previous home must be sold or is being sold. Thanks

     

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  • Mon, Nov 9 2009 2:39 PM

    Cameron,

    I don't have any specific information yet, but from what I've heard so far from the higher ups here at work is that your client would be eligible for the credit.  No need to sell their current home, as long as their debt to income ratio is good with both house payments or they have enough equity to be able to include the rent as income (along with some other requirements).  I'll post any further info I can gather but I'm sure more details will be coming out shortly.

  • Tue, Nov 10 2009 4:48 PM
    Here is the text of the bill:

    This is an excerpt from the text of the bill (status: Enrolled Bill). Jump to this paragraph in the full text. .

    ‘(6) EXCEPTION FOR LONG-TIME RESIDENTS OF SAME PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE- In the case of an individual (and, if married, such individual’s spouse) who has owned and used the same residence as such individual’s principal residence for any 5-consecutive-year period during the 8-year period ending on the date of the purchase of a subsequent principal residence, such individual shall be treated as a first-time homebuyer for purposes of this section with respect to the purchase of such subsequent residence.’.
    (Powered by GovTrack.us.)

    I see nothing in it that says the buyer must sell their current principal residence to qualify for the credit. Just that the subject property, the "subsequent residence," must be the purchaser's "principal residence." The IRS.gov site already has examples that make it clear that with the $8,000 first-time homebuyer credit that the purchaser may own rental property in the last three years as long as they didn't own a "principal residence."

    "S3. A taxpayer owned her principal residence. Several years ago, she decided to relocate to a rented apartment, but did not sell the former residence. Instead, she rented it out to tenants. Now the taxpayer plans to buy another house and make it her new principal residence. Does she qualify for the first-time homebuyer credit?"

    "A. A taxpayer who owned rental property within the past three years is still eligible for the credit. The taxpayer cannot have owned and used a home as his or her principal residence within the last three years."

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206294,00.html

    So apparently there is no prohibition to owning rental property and qualifying for the tax credit.




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  • Tue, Nov 10 2009 5:01 PM

    Found this on the NAR website. Check out the Current homeowner definition

    NAR Issue Brief Homebuyer Tax Credit

    National Association of REALTORS® Government Affairs Division 500 New Jersey Avenue, NW, Washington DC, 20001

    FEATURE

    Jan 1 – November 30, 2009 Rules as enacted February 2009

    November 7 – April 30, 2010 Rules as enacted November 2009

    First-time Buyer Amount of Credit

    $8000 ($4000 married filing separate)

    $8000 ($4000 married filing separate)

    First-time Buyer Definition for Eligibility

    May not have had an interest in a principal residence for 3 years prior to purchase

    Same

    Current Homeowner Amount of Credit

    No Provision

    $6500 ($3250 married filing separate)

    Effective Date Current Owner

    No Provision

    November 7, 2009

    Current Homeowner Definition for Eligibility

    No Provision

    Must have used the home sold or being sold as a principal residence consecutively for 5 of the previous 8 years

    Termination of Credit

    Purchases after November 30, 2009. (Becomes April 30, 2010 on Date of Enactment.)

    Purchases after April 30, 2010

    Binding Contract Rule

    None

    So long as a written binding contract to purchase is in effect on April 30, 2010, the purchaser will have until July 1, 2010 to close.

    Income Limits (Note: Increased income limits are effective as of date of enactment of bill)

    $75,000 – single $150,000 – married Additional $20,000 phase out

    $125,000 – single $225,000 – married Additional $20,000 phase out

    Limitation on Cost of Purchased Home

    None

    $800,000 November 7, 2009

    Purchase by a Dependent

    No Provision

    Ineligible November 7, 2009

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  • Tue, Nov 10 2009 5:08 PM

    NAR Issue Brief Homebuyer Tax Credit

    National Association of REALTORS® Government Affairs Division 500 New Jersey Avenue, NW, Washington DC, 20001

    FEATURE

    Jan 1 – November 30, 2009 Rules as enacted February 2009

    November 7 – April 30, 2010 Rules as enacted November 2009

    First-time Buyer Amount of Credit

    $8000 ($4000 married filing separate)

    $8000 ($4000 married filing separate)

    First-time Buyer Definition for Eligibility

    May not have had an interest in a principal residence for 3 years prior to purchase

    Same

    Current Homeowner Amount of Credit

    No Provision

    $6500 ($3250 married filing separate)

    Effective Date Current Owner

    No Provision

    November 7, 2009

    Current Homeowner Definition for Eligibility

    No Provision

    Must have used the home sold or being sold as a principal residence consecutively for 5 of the previous 8 years

    Termination of Credit

    Purchases after November 30, 2009. (Becomes April 30, 2010 on Date of Enactment.)

    Purchases after April 30, 2010

    Binding Contract Rule

    None

    So long as a written binding contract to purchase is in effect on April 30, 2010, the purchaser will have until July 1, 2010 to close.

    Income Limits (Note: Increased income limits are effective as of date of enactment of bill)

    $75,000 – single $150,000 – married Additional $20,000 phase out

    $125,000 – single $225,000 – married Additional $20,000 phase out

    Limitation on Cost of Purchased Home

    None

    $800,000 November 7, 2009

    Purchase by a Dependent

    No Provision

    Ineligible November 7, 2009

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  • Tue, Nov 10 2009 6:17 PM

    I believe their "definition" is inprecise. It presumes that the buyer is selling the current home they own. I do not believe that is a requirement. Of course my opinion (and theirs) doesn't matter. Wink Only the interpretation of the IRS matters, and they haven't published one yet.

    As a side note I can imagine that NAR would want buyers to also be sellers. I don't think it was the intent of Congress that these move-up buyers also put their homes on the market if they don't have to. The idea is to reduce inventory not increase it. 

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  • Tue, Nov 10 2009 6:32 PM

    There is nothing in the bill that mentions the property being sold.  It only refers to it as a replacement home and that they must have lived in one home for 5 out of the last 8 years.  Some might purchase a new primary residence and keep the current home as a 2nd home.  Or perhaps convert it to rental property.

  • Wed, Nov 11 2009 5:07 PM

    How about keep the one owned for 5 years as principal residence, and buy another one for rental purpose, will that qualify for tax credit?  How does IRS know that the new house just bought is for principle residence?   Thanks

  • Wed, Nov 11 2009 5:12 PM

    Lily zhu:
    How about keep the one owned for 5 years as principal residence, and buy another one for rental purpose, will that qualify for tax credit?  How does IRS know that the new house just bought is for principle residence?   Thanks

    No you can't do that unless you lie to the IRS and are willing to take the penalty or go to jail. 

  • Wed, Nov 11 2009 5:36 PM

    Lily zhu:
    How about keep the one owned for 5 years as principal residence, and buy another one for rental purpose, will that qualify for tax credit?

    No.

    Lily zhu:
    How does IRS know that the new house just bought is for principle residence?

    Because the taxpayer is required to tell them. The tax system is based on "voluntary compliance," i.e. the taxpayer is required to voluntarily report their income and compute their tax liability. If the taxpayer chooses not to voluntarily report their income and calculate their tax liability correctly they are at risk of being found out. If it is found out that they evaded income tax or fraudulently received tax refunds for which they were not eligible, then, as Bryan wrote, they might end up in jail or be subject to fines and penalties.

    To make sure that taxpayers are "voluntarily" complying, the IRS often audits suspicious tax returns. It is quite obvious how they might be able to cross-check those that file for this credit claiming a property as their primary residence when it is not.

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  • Wed, Nov 11 2009 7:05 PM

    Cameron,

    MND published a link to the NAR Government Affairs Division where they specifically answer this question:

    "Question: I owned my home for 10 years, but sold it two years ago year and have been renting since. If I purchase a home, will I be eligible for the $6500 tax credit if I meet all the other eligibility tests?"

    "Answer: Yes. Because you lived in the home for more than 5 consecutive years of the previous 8, you will qualify for the $6500 credit. For example, Say John and his wife bought a home in 2000 and lived there until 2008 when he got a divorce. Whether John has been renting or bought in the interim, he WOULD INDEED be eligible for the credit because he owned a home and occupied it as his principal residence for 5 consecutive years out of the last 8 years. The keyword here is "consecutive." As long as he lived in that house for 5 years straight what he did since 3 years doesn't impact eligibility."

    http://www.realtor.org/wps/wcm/connect/d336a1804033a163816af5205f470b6e/government_affairs_tax_credit_FAQs_110509.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=d336a1804033a163816af5205f470b6e

    http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/11102009_home_buyer_tax_credit_answers.asp

    Thanks to Adam and MND.

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  • Thu, Nov 12 2009 2:17 PM

    Thanks for replies!

    Does the tax credit apply for F-1 visa holder who files tax return form?  how about aliens who live in USA less than 3 years?

  • Thu, Nov 12 2009 7:17 PM

    Lily,

    These questions are very technical in nature and can not address your specific situation. Please contact a tax professional for tax advice.

    Generally speaking, the definition of a "first-time homebuyer" eligible for this credit is someone that has not owned a home used as their principal residence in the last three years. There is no requirement that a taxpayer must have lived in the US for over three years. As a matter of fact according to a question and answer on the IRS web-site owning a principal residence within the last three years outside of the US does not disqualify a taxpayer from the credit:

    "Q. Would I be considered a first time homebuyer if I owned a principal residence outside of the United States within the previous three years?"

    "A. Yes. A taxpayer who owned a principal residence outside of the United States within the last three years is not disqualified from taking the credit for a purchase within the United States."

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206291,00.html

    A good question to ask a tax adviser is can students in the US on an F-1 Visa have a principal residence in the US since they are nonimmigrant aliens and temporary residents?

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  • Fri, Nov 13 2009 11:34 AM

    Thanks for reply!

    I checked the irs web site, the F visa holder is considering as nonresident, thus not qualify for the tax credit.

    Q. Who cannot take the credit?

    A. If any of the following describe you, you cannot take the credit, even if you buy a new home:

    • Your income exceeds the phase-out range. This means joint filers with MAGI of $170,000 and above and other taxpayers with MAGI of $95,000 and above.

    • You buy your home from a close relative. This includes your spouse, parent, grandparent, child or grandchild.

    • You do not use the home as your principal residence.

    • You sell your home before the end of the year.

    • You are a nonresident alien.

    • You are, or were, eligible to claim the District of Columbia first-time homebuyer credit for any taxable year. (This does not apply for a home purchased in 2009.)

    • Your home financing comes from tax-exempt mortgage revenue bonds. (This does not apply for a home purchased in 2009.)

    • You owned a principal residence at any time during the three years prior to the date of purchase of your new home. For example, if you bought a home on July 1, 2008, you cannot take the credit for that home if you owned, or had an ownership interest in, another principal residence at any time from July 2, 2005, through July 1, 2008.
  • Fri, Nov 13 2009 12:17 PM

    Thanks for posting that information Lily.

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  • Sun, Nov 15 2009 11:13 AM

    I have an unusual situation and I would like to know if I qualify for any tax credit.
     
    My husband and I have lived in the same home on acreage for 11 years. In 2007 we assumed the mortgage loan from my mother and became owners of the home vs. renters. In 2006 my mother added my name to the title of the home (not sure if this is relevant???).
     
     
    Now we are planning to build a large home in the same location and are removing the original home. Our builder is under the impression we are eligible for the move-up 6500 tax credit because we have physically lived in this location for more than the 5yr minimum [even though we have not been the actual owners] and because we assumed the loan and did not purchase. I have sought legal tax help but have not gotten a direct answer. We qualify in every other way (i.e., income, house completion dates, total build costs, etc.) for the tax credit so that is not a concern. It's basically the question of; does a homeowner qualify because the homeowner LIVED in the same house for 5 out of 8 years....or, OWNED the home for 5 out of 8 years?
     
    Hoping someone will have an idea here....thanks!
     
  • Sun, Nov 15 2009 3:10 PM

    Angela,

    First let me say that you need to ask your tax/legal adviser again to get a clear answer that applies specifically to your situation. But here are some observations.

    Angela Meyer:
    In 2006 my mother added my name to the title of the home (not sure if this is relevant???).

    This is extremely relevant. It sounds like you became a owner of this property in 2006 when your mother deeded you an interest in the property. I am presuming that when you say she added your "name to the title of the home" that is how it was done.

    Angela Meyer:
    In 2007 we assumed the mortgage loan from my mother and became owners of the home vs. renters.

    This is not when you became a homeowner; this was when you became responsible for a loan. You became an owner of the property when your name was "added to the title." (Again I am having to make some presumptions that could be wrong.)

    Angela Meyer:
    It's basically the question of; does a homeowner qualify because the homeowner LIVED in the same house for 5 out of 8 years....or, OWNED the home for 5 out of 8 years?

    Here are some issues you need to consider:

    It appears you purchased (became a homeowner in a property) in 2006 and have lived in it as your primary residence since then.

    It appears you have owned and used the property as your primary residence consecutively for about three of the last eight years.

    It appears your interest in the property you own came from a close relative.

    From the IRS website:

    "S8. A qualifying taxpayer bought a home in August 2008 that needed a lot of work before occupying. They finished the renovations and moved in the home in January 2009. Can they claim the $8,000, since they did not occupy the home until 2009?"

    "A. No. Taxpayers who purchase an existing home and renovate the property before moving in are eligible for the first-time homebuyer credit based on the date of purchase, not the date of occupancy."

    "Q. Does previously inheriting a home and living in the inherited home automatically disqualify an individual as a first-time homebuyer with respect to a different home that is purchased within the prescribed 2008 and 2009 time frames?"

    "A. Yes, an ownership interest in a prior principal residence would preclude the taxpayer from being considered a first-time homebuyer. As long as the taxpayer owned and used the prior home as his principal residence, then he is not a first-time homebuyer. There is no exception for taxpayers who did not buy their prior residences. (05/06/09)"

    "Q. Who cannot take the credit?"

    "A. If any of the following describe you, you cannot take the credit, even if you buy a new home:"

    • "You buy your home from a close relative. This includes your spouse, parent, grandparent, child or grandchild."
    • "You owned a principal residence at any time during the three years prior to the date of purchase of your new home. For example, if you bought a home on July 1, 2008, you cannot take the credit for that home if you owned, or had an ownership interest in, another principal residence at any time from July 2, 2005, through July 1, 2008."

    From the text of the bill:

    ‘(6) EXCEPTION FOR LONG-TIME RESIDENTS OF SAME PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE- In the case of an individual (and, if married, such individual’s spouse) who has owned and used the same residence as such individual’s principal residence for any 5-consecutive-year period during the 8-year period ending on the date of the purchase of a subsequent principal residence, such individual shall be treated as a first-time homebuyer for purposes of this section with respect to the purchase of such subsequent residence.’.

    I think this last one answers your question: "does a homeowner qualify because the homeowner LIVED in the same house for 5 out of 8 years....or, OWNED the home for 5 out of 8 years?" It clearly says: "owned and used."

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  • Mon, Nov 16 2009 2:22 PM

    Thank you Mr. Cooper for your insight! Although not the answer I was hoping for...it is indeed an answer and that is what I need. Wink

    As you suggested, I will check again with my CPA just to make sure. Thanks again!

  • Sat, Nov 28 2009 12:31 PM

    I've read this thread and the various IRS pages and scenarios, and I still have a basic question. My wife and I purchased a house in June, 2009. Prior to that, we owned a house for about 10 years. The old house was our primary residence, and we sold that the same time we moved into our new primary residence. Just an ordinary sell-the-old-house-and-buy-and-move-into-a-new-house deal.

    It appears to me that because we purchased our new house in June, 2009, i.e., prior to November, 2009, that we are not eligible for any of these credits. Is this correct?

    Thanks,

    Bill

  • Sat, Nov 28 2009 1:12 PM

    William Pollack:
    I've read this thread and the various IRS pages and scenarios, and I still have a basic question. My wife and I purchased a house in June, 2009. Prior to that, we owned a house for about 10 years. The old house was our primary residence, and we sold that the same time we moved into our new primary residence. Just an ordinary sell-the-old-house-and-buy-and-move-into-a-new-house deal.

     

    It appears to me that because we purchased our new house in June, 2009, i.e., prior to November, 2009, that we are not eligible for any of these credits. Is this correct?

    Thanks,

    Bill

    You are correct.  You do not qualify for the tax credit.

     

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