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Post Statistics: 4,045 Views, 7 Replies
Latest Post: Tue, Sep 22 2009 6:19 PM by Dan Chapman
  • Sun, Aug 30 2009 3:25 PM
    Short Sale with No late Payments and Good Credit

    My wife and I purchased a single family home in 2005 for $435K and now the value of the home has dropped $100K.  We are currently able to afford the current mortgage, have never been late, have a 750+ credit score, have good income and really do not have a hardship (i.e. lost job, financial instability and etc).  Our first problem is that we were given a 5 year interest only mortgage which will balloon in 2010 and we will therefore have to pay principle and interest.  We currently do not want to do a loan modification that will just adjust the payment without adjusting the principle since the house is already $100K below what we purchased at.

    * Are we able to sell this house as a short sale and still purchase another house?

    * Are we able to sell our house as a short sale to a family member and purchase it back from them in a year to two years?

    * Are there any programs that can help individuals in our situtation (i.e. help us to lower the principle to what the current value of the house is)?

    * What are our options since we have a very rare situation?

    Please help!!!!

     

  • Mon, Aug 31 2009 12:40 PM

    Mike, your situation is actually quite common nowadays. If you short sell, it will be treated as a foreclosure or pre-foreclosure as far as qualifying for a mortgage down the road. Your credit report will have a mortgage tradeline showing as "settled for less than balance". You will have to wait at minimum of 2-3 years before you will qualify for another mortgage. This is the best case and the loan being settled for less than balance cannot be in default at any time before the sale takes place. If per chance the mortgage company doesn't report it that way on credit you may have an outside shot at getting another mortgage loan.

    A family member can but the property but it will have to be done in the open market. The highest offer will typically get the house just like most other sales. Buying it back would be seriously scrutinized by an underwriter because of the short sale so it may be difficult but not impossible after the 2 year period.

    Reduced principal negotiations with your current lender is probably not going to happen. It's allowed but only on a voluntary basis. I don't know many lenders who volunteer for this option so far. Things could change in the future.

    Depending on the terms of your ARM, your rate may stay the same or even go down when it adjusts. The indexes that ARM rates are calculated on are actually at all time lows right now. This will change from month to month but for right now, most ARMs are actually adjusting down at this time. It's hard to say where we will be in 2010, but the trend has been quite friendly over the last 10 months.

     

     - View My Profile
    Sales Manager
    Creative Mortgage Solutions
  • Mon, Aug 31 2009 9:54 PM

    I second that your situation is not rare . . . many people own homes that are not currently able to be sold for the same price - many by a drastic amount.

    At the risk of sounding rude, why is it that you think that the lender/lending community should forgive you the 100K?

    And frankly - if you want to keep this house long term, why do you care what it is worth now? "Value" is a snapshot - 6 months from now, that snapshot will be completely different - and 6 months from that different still, etc.

    If you can afford the payments, agreed to get the loan, understood it, have no hardship, and want to stay in the house . . . from their point of view, why in the world should they do anything at all? They are out the $500K already, and you are making the payments you agreed to make - they have no reason to change anything whatsoever. They are not going to approve a short sale, modification, or any other such thing.

    In order to get away with not paying $100,000 that you borrowed (real money that someone had to pay and that is now a direct loss to the servicer), at the very least they are going to mark your credit report "This person borrowed 500,000 and only paid back 400,000" to warn the next lender that that is something that you are ok with doing and might do again. And there would be no reason a new lender to trust you . . . they are going to ask you why you did that, what terrible thing caused it . . .and I am not sure what you could say to explain it.

    Selling to a family member without disclosing that it is a family member with the intention of buying the home back later at a cheaper price - that is, letting the bank take the fall but "keeping" the house in your circle of influence- is fraud. If an underwriter realizes that this home is being sold to someone that is known to you and that that information was not disclosed, the loan for your family member will be denied, and rightly so.

    Again, forgive me my soap box - this is not intended to be mean, and is not a rant or rave at you specifically - but please understand that real estate is not guaranteed to increase in value.

    Over time, on average, real estate usually appreciates . . . but in any given year, it may go up or down - sometimes in extreme fashion. No one assumes that their car will be worth what they paid for it a few years ago. . . no one assumes that the stock market is without risk . . . why do we as a population feel entitled to someone making it all better if our real estate value decreases? We as tax payers are paying directly when banks go under because owners feel that they are entitled to increased or level values - or preotection from loss - and this just isnt how it works. When you default on a loan due to decreased values, it contributes to the spiral effect . . . lower values, more defaults, more bank failures, more taxpayer bailouts, etc . . .

    I understand that some people have no choice. They have lost their jobs. They received predatory loans that were poorly explained. Etc, etc., etc. If none of these fit your case - the only responsible choice is to pay the loan as you agreed to pay it.

    If you can make the payments, and you want this particular house - stick it out. If you give up on this house because you don't think it will ever perform the way you wanted it to, then you will not be permitted to get another one under the same terms for a while. The lenders are kind of in a "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice . . . ." spot. It is a trade off - you can get out of the loan, but it is at the cost of your financial reputation, at least in the short term. Action and natural consequence.

    I have to agree that your adjustable rate may well adjust down to a rate under current market in the next round - you may find yourself paying less you your loan than others are paying on their smaller principal amounts. And if you plan to keep the home, the cost to service the debt is as important (dare I say more important?) than its value.

    Let us know how you decide. Nothing personal, best of luck.

     - View My Profile
    Mortgage Consultant
    Mortgage Master, Inc.
  • Sat, Sep 19 2009 3:08 AM

    Mike,

    I completely understand your situation as I am in a very similar situation.  I own a house, I am SERIOUSLY underwater, and can afford the payments (at least for now).  I do have fear that someday I may not be able to, as my loan is adjustable.  I am now weighed down by tremendous unrecoverable debt because of my house.  According to Kelcey, I'm supposed to hold on to the property, be forced to live in a house I don't want to live in for probably another five to ten years, because it's the right thing to do morally.  The whole time, hoping, that maybe someday the value in the house will return. 

    My advise to you is to ignore the above post by Kelcey.  While I understand the position stated above, you need to do what is the right FINANCIAL decision for you.  Do what's right for you and your family.  Staying in the home, holding on to a tremendous debt, just for moral reasons is not acceptable.  Think of it this way, you were responsible, you bought your home within your means.  Others did not, and were able to escape their loans very easily.  This created the problem, this created the tremendous down turn in the market.  So all of the responsible people are supposed to take a beating, while the irresponsible people get taken care of and are debt free.  This isn't right, do what you need to do to better your personal situation.

    - P

  • Mon, Sep 21 2009 5:15 PM
    I am in the same situation as you but I am 200k upside down. I would love to get out of my home and rent for 2 years. I think the market is going to get worse too. My payments are barely affordable as things are very tight with my current mortgage payments. I am trying to decide whether to just try and short sale or to be late then short sale. I don't want to eat up my savings trying to make the payments as my business is up and down lately. In 4 years my rate and payment will go up too. I am just not sure if the lender will say " okay we will accept 200k less" when I have never been late. I am leaning towards being late at least on my second which is 120k. Not sure what to do a bummer to be in this position.
  • Tue, Sep 22 2009 2:58 PM

    Dan Chapman:
    I would love to get out of my home and rent for 2 years

     

    2 years is the absolute minimum - I would plan on 3-5 years.  And then only with excellent re-establishment of your then tarnished credit report.  Be prepared to pay higher than normal interest rates as well.  I just hope that everyone understands that you don't get a free pass after the 2-5 years has expired.  In addition, those of you with Government - Backed loans (FHA/VA/USDA) - well, the government never forgets.  So if you cause one of those agencies a loss, it could further hamper your ability to get financed down the road.

    I feel sorry for folks that can't afford their homes - but I want to squash the notion that a foreclosure or a short sale is no big deal, all you have to do is wait 3 years.....

     - View My Profile
    Owner/Loan Officer
    Premier Home Loans
    curt@phlloans.com
    (800) 745-2637
  • Tue, Sep 22 2009 4:37 PM

    It's my understanding that if you can short sale without missing payments, the credit hit is minimal (~30-50 points).  You will be unable to buy another home for 2 years because of the short sale itself, which is being treated similar to a foreclosure.  Your credit report will state "settled for less".  It's really the missed payments that are the biggest problem to your credit rating.  Keep in mind that MANY people are going to be in this position, so that may help the detrimental impact given time.

    Now, if you can be allowed to short sale without missed payments, maybe that is the difficulty.  I would think though that many people need to move from one area, therefore needing a new house (and are underwater.)

  • Tue, Sep 22 2009 6:19 PM
    True interest rates and credit go hand in hand for sure. Should be an interesting next few years for sure. I do think it could take 7-10 years to gain the 200k in equity back though.
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